[:1]Basically, which of the 2(3) would give more damage
an elemental zealot, or a conviction vengeance pally, assuming I'm untwinked.
I was originally gonna go zealot, because it's less dependant on which weapon you have. But, since I'm teaming up with an elemental MA-assasin, i'm starting to consider conviction, as it would also greatly increase her damage.
Note that this is untwinked, so no infinity or whatever the RW is called on the merc.
Any hints?|||I have recently tried creating a holyfreeze aura build (tweaked) and leveling naturally (with the occasional act 3 trav & durance 2 wp help from pub games). It works fine all the way thru norm-nightmare, mobs bursting into icecube has a certain appeal, and the slowing effect from holyfreeze helps with crowd control too. And using my conviction based dreamadin as a comparison in terms of gameplay, here are my observations so far.
Maxing the first synergy (resist cold) is kinda crucial in getting a decent cold dmg bonus to your attacks, and a fast weapon (preferably) with some crushing blow mods allows you to tackle most mobs and bosses in norm & nightmare games. Your lack of decent AR would be your primary problem as you progress further in levels, since you neither have conviction that lowers defense on mobs & bosses, nor fanaticism that boosts your AR. I would recommend going for weapons that provide ITD (ignore target defense) if you are able to find some, but you will still need some form of AR boost to actually land hits on bosses, which isn't much of a problem until you hit hell difficulty games.
I was lucky enough to have found a unique scepter called Zakarum's Hand which comes with ITD mod and +2 holyfreeze, and used it primarily as my weapon of choice all the way till the act 5 nightmare games. You should consider doing the same if possible.
I suppose if you are pairing up with a elemental based assassin, conviction will greatly benefit her, but without a secondary source of elemental dmg on your part, you will actually be more like a merc with a beneficial aura "FOR" her rather than yourself (unless of course you are able to find or make a runeword base weapon like rift - [Hel + Ko + Lem + Gul] to capitalize on the conviction aura to boost your own attacks and dmg).
So, it is still very possible and fun to go with conviction as your primary aura and aim for weapons that provide good elemental dmg. Not only will you be able to share your conviction aura with those in your party, you will also be able to do your part in dealing dmg (as opposed to standing around looking pretty).
If you're considering going with the conviction aura, I would seriously recommend going with a riftadin type build (or use glimmershred), and there are guides in the Paladin forums to help you along on that. However, by going untweaked, the only problem you might face will be getting a Gul rune to make rift (which I highly recommend making in a 4 socket war scepter - preferably with + conviction skills, or just plain 4 sockets without skills if you want to save on spending gold repairing it)
Goodluck.|||I've been playing an untwinked p8 conviction zealer, currently in nm using a A3 cold merc, paired with conviction it currently makes a great combo for damage+crowd control as well as general fun.
No insight makes vengeance quite a mana hog compared to zeal, although the weapon is more easy to find imo (I mostly look for ed+speed).
Conviction will help the assassin and yourself quite a bit, just look for ral runes, ort, etc, for your weapon if your using zeal, or shop elemental damage weapons, found some great ones myself.
As for most damage, I can not say, since untwinked/Mp varies. Hope I helped a bit.|||Both will work. If you go with HF/HS, your AR will be terrible. When I made one, I used a 6socket Phase Blade with 4 Eth runes and 2 Shael runes.
If you go Convicition, a great runeword is Voice of Reason (Lem Ko El Eld). Does a lot of cold based damage with ctc Frozen Orb. I prefer Conviction Zealots as they have a lot of flexibility with skill points.|||Quote:
When I made one, I used a 6socket Phase Blade with 4 Eth runes and 2 Shael runes.
I was always under the assumption that there was a cap to the amount of -%defense that can be achieved using eth runes in weapons. Can I get some confirmation on this?
If you are right, using 4 eth runes will provide for a cheap source of ITD mod on a socketable weapon. A great choice if going untweaked.|||I don't believe there is a cap. Onederduiker here isn't aware of one either, and he is usually very good with info like that. Also the fact that my Paladin was able to hit things in Act 5 Hell quite easily despite having 4 points in Zeal and next to no AR would suggest that it was working fine.
However, Eth runes do work at half effectiveness against super uniques and act bosses.|||I was under the assumption that the added elemental damage of vengeance was based on the damage of the weapon you're wielding, and not on any elemental pre- of suffixes. Am i wrong here?
As for AR, i was thinking of getting A blessed aim merc since, i'll be either carrying the HF aura, or, in the case of conviction, the assasin's moron can still do it.
about the rift/VoR runewords: how valuable is -cold res if you're maxing conviction?
Another question: how viable would a harmony bow be?
quick calculation with a great bow (low dex and -10 speed) gives me:
36 base damage
250%ED +9max+9min=135 damage (unless the +9 is added before th ED, in which case it's more)
+300% ED from vengeance x3 (approximate, depending on levels etc)
=1215 elemental damage
+3x107,5 elemental damage from harmony
=1537 damage per shot.
with some other sources of ED and whatever ED i get from my stats, combined with conviction's -150% resist. Would this work in any way?|||Quote:
I was under the assumption that the added elemental damage of vengeance was based on the damage of the weapon you're wielding, and not on any elemental pre- of suffixes. Am i wrong here?
Correct. Vengeance damage is based on weapon damage.
Detailed explanation of what does/doesn't work with Vengeance:
Spoiler
From The Avenger guide for V1.11.
This means, that only certain things that add to your physical damage, will also count towards Vengeance elemental damage. These are;
- Enhanced or min/max damage from socketing in the weapon.
- Min/max damage from socketing in off weapon equipment.
- Min/max damage from items or charms.
- Weapon and item added damage that reads "adds xx damage" such as Butchers pupil, War traveller boots and Blood Fist gloves.
What doesn't count towards Vengeance elemental damage;
- Auras enhanced damage such as Might or Fanatism.
- Weapon added damage that reads "damage + xx" such as Grief rune word and The Redeemer. This has been tested in game to not work.
- Factors such as Deadly Strike, Open Wounds or Crushing Blow.
- Strength. Vengeance works from weapon damage only.
- Off weapon enhanced damage such as socketed jewels or Lion Heart, Fortitude or Duress rune words.
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about the rift/VoR runewords: how valuable is -cold res if you're maxing conviction?
It doesn't hurt.
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Another question: how viable would a harmony bow be?
Good bow. Vengeance doesn't work with ranged attacks, though.|||Quote:
I was under the assumption that the added elemental damage of vengeance was based on the damage of the weapon you're wielding, and not on any elemental pre- of suffixes. Am i wrong here?
Vengeance works on the dmg your weapon deals and adds extra elemental dmg based on the hard points you may have invested into it's synergies. Vengeance as an attack skill that works in conjunction with conviction aura to boosts it's supposed high elemental dmg, much like how runeword based auradins uses conviction as well. However, do note that vengeance has a relatively high mana consumption, and it is said that using it as a constant attack consumes your mana very fast, plus unless you are using a high dmg weapon which benefits from any mana leech source you may have to refill your "blue bulb", you may find it a bothersome to drink mana pots on a regular basis.
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As for AR, i was thinking of getting A blessed aim merc since, i'll be either carrying the HF aura, or, in the case of conviction, the assasin's moron can still do it.
Using a blessed aim merc will likely benefit both you and your assassin partner if she is a martial arts based elemental dealer. In any case, it will definitely help with your AR issue, and if you're going with the vengeance route, putting an insight runeword on your merc will also help with your high mana consumption that comes with every attack you do.
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about the rift/VoR runewords: how valuable is -cold res if you're maxing conviction?
The dmg that the Frozen Orb proc that comes with either rift or voice of reason can greatly be enhanced by your conviction aura if you choose to go with that as your primary aura. It is said that there are unbreakable cold immune mobs in hell games which even a lvl25 conviction aura will not be able to break, however I am not sure if any additional -cold res your character might have will add on to your conviction aura to overcome them. But, you will still have your natural physical dmg from your weapon attacks to deal with those, and possibly additional elemental dmg (fire/lite/poison) source. For more information about this, you can refer to the riftadin guides.
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Another question: how viable would a harmony bow be?
quick calculation with a great bow (low dex and -10 speed) gives me:
36 base damage
250%ED +9max+9min=135 damage (unless the +9 is added before th ED, in which case it's more)
+300% ED from vengeance x3 (approximate, depending on levels etc)
=1215 elemental damage
+3x107,5 elemental damage from harmony
=1537 damage per shot.
with some other sources of ED and whatever ED i get from my stats, combined with conviction's -150% resist. Would this work in any way?
Harmony runeword is a fun little bow, and I'd enjoyed using it on my Druid summoner hunter a long time ago. It's vigor aura makes for fast traveling from point A to B, and helps you evade potential mobs ganging up on you. I have not considered using it with a conviction paladin before, but I suppose it should work. However I'm not sure if the overall dmg is comparable to either rift or voice of reason. Perhaps it will suffice as mid lvl weapon(normal thru nightmare), but I highly doubt it's effectiveness in hell games tho.
Not to mention using it at range means possibly shooting at mobs from afar that hasn't been affected by your conviction aura. That is one of the reasons why melee based conviction paladins works the best imo.|||hm, vengeance not working on ranged means it's back to rift or VoR.
These would probably work just as well with either a conviction or a HF aura.
zeal would mean more frozen orbs though.
does this:
+220-350% Damage To Demons
+355-375% Damage To Undead (varies)
also add damage to vengeance?
I assume it would count as
- Enhanced or min/max damage from socketing in the weapon.
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