Since this is my first post, I'd like to thank everyone at Inc.Gamers for some wonderful guides and topics over the years.
As a side note: Sorry if there's already been a discussion about this, but I was unable to find one via the search, nor did I find any guides comparing the two setups.
I've set out to create a Dreamer, which means dual wielding two dream runewords and using Conviction as a main aura.
However I have a question regarding which setup to use for weapon and armor. As I see it, theres two options:
Physical with Grief/Forty or Auradin with Hoj/Dragon
The question lies therein, which is the more powerful build?
To clarify: Which has the highest damage and killing speed, without sacrificing too much in terms of defense?
Equipment:
- If there's any flaws/improvements to be made, please point them out to me, thank you
- Helm - Dream
- Armor - Forty/Dragon
- Shield - Dream (In a paladin shield with max res)
- Weapon - Grief/HoJ (Is Last Wish superior to Grief in this build?)
- Gloves - Dracul
- Belt - Verdungo
- Boots - Up'ed Gorerider
- Amu - Highlords Wrath
- Rings - Bk5 / Raven Frost
Stat Allocation for Physical build:
- 20 Resist Lightning
- 20 Salvation
- 20 Conviction
- 20 Sacrifice
- 20 Zeal
- 11 Prereqs (For holyshield, conviction and 1 pt Vengeance)
-----
TL;DR: What is best: Forty/Grief vs. Hoj/Dragon?
Thank you for reading this, and hopefully helping me out here
|||Well, okay.HoJ
1913 phys + 3503 light + 1548 fire
Grief
7991 phys + 3503 light
Conviction isn't taken into account, so the auradin is not that bad.
You need 72 ias for the last Zeal BP. It's a pretty big increase in DPS from 5 to 4 frame Zeal I think, but you'll have to drop Drac's to get there and imo that's going to slow you down more than anything else.
Personally: I would definitely go Grief/Fort but I'm very biased in that regard. HoJ and Dragon have always seemed massively overpriced and mediocre to me. I also despise relying on life tap and would probably use LoH with Strings and a nice leech/stat ring. Also, I would get 15 (or at least 10) into HS before maxing Zeal and Salvation.|||Thanks for the response, that was excatly what I needed
Grief/Forty is it, would Last Wish be even better than Grief?
I could change Drac's for Laying on Hands which would provide the 20% IAS that I need, and as you suggested get Strings of Ears along with a leaching ring. That would provide around 15% LL, but I doubt that would sustain my life in hell.
An Act1 merc with Faith then? - Or should I just ignore the last BP and go pure dmg with a might/pride Act2 merc?
PS: By HS you mean Holy Shield right? And where should I sacrifice the points, Zeal or Sacrifice?|||I'm not going to run the numbers for you like Hubb, but if you replace your belt with Nosferatu's Coil and socket an Azurewrath with a 15IAS jewel you'll hit the fastest Zeal breakpoint and still be able to keep Drac's and it's Lifetap. The 250-500 magic damage and 250-500 cold damage it adds and the extra skill point are nice bonuses as well.
I had this build last ladder and it was ridiculously easy plowing through monsters. It applied physical, cold, lightning, and magic damage every attack while running Conviction which meant there was no need to waste a point in Vengeance.|||Have you considered a Physical/Cold/Lightning variant?
Dream Headgear + Shield
Doom Weapon
+ Infinity on a might-merc.
As long as you get yourself some decent resistances you can use pretty much whatever gear you want for the rest of the slots.
Skills.
20 - Resist lightning
20 - Resist Cold
20 - Salvation
20 - Fanaticism
1 - Zeal
X - Holy shield
X - Sacrifice|||Quote:
Replace your belt with Nosferatu's Coil and socket an Azurewrath with a 15IAS jewel you'll hit the fastest Zeal breakpoint and still be able to keep Drac's and it's Lifetap. The 250-500 magic damage and 250-500 cold damage it adds and the extra skill point are nice bonuses as well.
I had this build last ladder and it was ridiculously easy plowing through monsters. It applied physical, cold, lightning, and magic damage every attack while running Conviction which meant there was no need to waste a point in Vengeance.
An interesting suggestion. I'd like to hit the last BP, but Drac's is essential for sustaining life.
Afaik though, Azurewrath lacks alot of damage compared to Grief.
I'll try and get an Azurewrath to test it out, would you run Forty with Azurewrath aswell?
Quote:
Have you considered a Physical/Cold/Lightning variant?
Dream Headgear + Shield
Doom Weapon
+ Infinity on a might-merc.
As long as you get yourself some decent resistances you can use pretty much whatever gear you want for the rest of the slots.
Skills.
20 - Resist lightning
20 - Resist Cold
20 - Salvation
20 - Fanaticism
1 - Zeal
X - Holy shield
X - Sacrifice
Getting Infy for a merc and using Fanaticism might be even better. But the damage provided by Fanaticism only applies to Physical damage right? - That would make Grief/Forty superior to Doom, which would only provide 500 cold dmg from the aura + the Physical dmg ofc.|||Quote:
An interesting suggestion. I'd like to hit the last BP, but Drac's is essential for sustaining life.
Afaik though, Azurewrath lacks alot of damage compared to Grief.
I'll try and get an Azurewrath to test it out, would you run Forty with Azurewrath aswell?
The beauty of Azurewrath is that it hit's the fastest Zeal while allowing you to wear Dracul's Grasp. That extra frame of Zeal adds over 16% to your attack speed/damage output. Grief would hit 268 attacks per minute, Azurewrath hits 313. Yes, Grief outputs far more physical damage but it's not amplified by Conviction and your only damage types are physical and lightning. There are some monsters out there that are immune to your attacks. Using Azurewrath gives you 4 types of damage output which means nothing is immune. It tacks on 250-500 Magic damage and 250-500 Cold (which Conviction amplifies).
Grief is a very powerful runeword and will probably outperform Azurewrath in most situations. I am not suggesting a socketed Azurewrath is better, I'm simply pointing out that it is often overlooked and actually performs surprisingly well for those that are PvM and want a 5 frame Zeal while wearing Dracul's or don't want/can't afford Grief.
Grief's 3 main advantages are ITD, speed, and the massive physical damage. Obviously when it comes to smiting Grief's physical damge wins hands down. When it comes to Zealing a socketed Azurewrath has more IAS and if you're running Conviction the ITD benefits from Grief are greatly diminished.
As for using Fortitude or not, it is purely personal choice. I was killing so quickly I never felt the need for more damage so I didn't worry about it. I preferred to use Enigma with a Spirit shield and Wizardspike on switch so I could Teleport.
Hubb
Quote:
Grief
7991 phys + 3503 light
I followed that link but I couldn't see how you arrived at the 7991. Could you help me understand how you got it?|||Whoops, thanks for noticing. When I added Fort's ED I updated the damage value from 5909 to 7991 but forgot about the URL it pointed to.
Good points re Azurewrath, the Sanctuary isn't something to be overlooked either. It's true that unless you're going to consistently play in full games, a setup that's not 100% damage-optimal but allows you some freedom (like Azurewrath and Enigma) does just as well as or better than the ones you're considering.|||Excellent post Frostadin. I've assembled the Dreamer, and he's performing far over expectation, and as you've correctly stated, damage isn't really an issue.
When playing three major issues became apparent to me:
- Somewhat not optimal defense, if I'm not leeching my life drains fast
- Far too often I miss, which I find odd due to both Conviction and the ITD from Grief
- The lack of freedom, e.g. teleport.
Since damage isn't an issue, I'll propably go with Azurewrath and Enigma for the added mobility, so once again, thanks for pointing that out to me
- Which would then be the best merc to have around? Act2 Might with Pride?|||What's your AR? I would think that with 140+ dex and the raven it would be fine.
The only char I would consider using Pride on would be a very well equipped bowa, on most chars Reaper's is by far the best for both damage and safety. I've got a HF/Reaper's merc for my Berserk barb since he already has so much ED and the added safety allows him to kill so much more freely. It's up to you, but I would try both Might and HF.
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